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I've played a couple of proxy games but have just bought the eKrueger model so I'd be interested in some advice on what works best with him.

First game will be against Steve's Rasheth force next week. He's asked for an ETC practice game so I don't feel too bad about tailoring a bit against him ... but I'd also like a workable all-comers list.

So, stuff I definitely want in:

eKrueger (+5)
-Megalith 11 (6)
-Woldwarden 9 (15)
-Warpwolf Stalker 10 (25)
-Gorax 4 (29)
2 x Shifting Stones 4 (33)

That should give massive amounts of movement shenanigans between cast or geomancied TK / gallows / teleporting / sprint. First question - do I actually need both Mega and the Warden in here? I definitely want Megalith as I've just bought the model () but would I be better off with more killiness such as a Pureblood or Feral?

As far as the rest of the list goes, I'm thinking either aggressive or more conservative.

Aggressive option:
Max Ravagers + UA 11 (44)
Ravager White Mane 3 (47)
Stones UA 1 (48)
Blackclad Wayfarer 2 (50)

More defensive one:
Druids + UA 9 (42)
Min Bone Grinders 2 (44)
Pendrake 2 (46)
Lord of the Feast 4 (50)

Option 1 gives me the speed, reasonable toughness, and hitting power of Ravagers. White Mane for Tactician. Stonekeeper for stealth, increasing teleport bubble, and Rockhammer KDs. Wayfarer for more KD or Hunter's Mark.

Option 2 feels more conventionally Circle-ey, but for that reason I've put in the Minions to mix it up a bit. Druids mainly for clouds and counter magic. Fishing is a bonus just in case the other movement effects aren't enough ... :WTF?: Bone Grinders for 10" TK and 12" Gallows. Pendrake's a fairly specific include vs Hordes, but he's not useless against WM with the KD bola (Gallows / fish a heavy into melee with a Wold; beat on it; Geo TK it back out and turned around; KD it with bola; optionally, disruption spear before the TK is even more dirty). Finally Feasty, just because Feasty is rude and bent and dirty. Frankly he might as well be a Khador model and have done with it, for how good he is.

So what do you guys think? Any obvious omissions? Either list obviously better than the other?

Both solid, but my preference would definitely be for the Ravager unit, although I'd probably say the Whitemane and Stone Keeper would be better served as the Lord of the Feast.

I would go this way because with the Druids etc, you really start lacking hitting power, especially if the stalker dies. The Ravagers do a lot to counter this, if you don't want to go for a second 'hitty' heavy.

I will always espouse 2 geomancers with eKrueger. He loves him some bonus gallows/TKs/lightning storms.
He's also pretty fragile, so they let him stay back a bit more while still doing things.

Having said that, if you're feeling mean and tailoring, the Druids (counter-magic) would be awesome vs Rasheth. Chanel that, bitch.

Personally, I don't like the Stalker with eKrueger. MAT7 let's me down plenty, let alone MAT6, and relying on Primal is not a good thing if he's your only heavy killing option, especially if you're looking at killing several models that will require that level of power.

I would go for another heavy, but I think we've figured out by this point that that's just me..!

-Tom.

Cheers Tom. In the past I've typically always gone for as many beasts as I can get in the list, plus a unit of stones and maybe LotF, and called it an army

I fancied putting in some infantry now though, as I'm getting more of a feel for them since I've been playing the Mercs. However, I'm not intuitively clued in to what works!

Hmm. So if I swap Stalker for Feral and Stonekeeper, then take the Max Ravagers and UA plus Mr The Feast, that leaves me 2. Blackclad or Bone Grinders? +2 range for Krueger's spells is awesome (not to mention some handy low-DEF targets for Lightning bombs), but so's +2 on the charge range.

I'm really struggling here, because my automatic instinct when I'm unsure is to scrap everything, take four warpwolves, and see what points I have left for support!

Tom's the fucking man at this shit. I totally agree that you'd be fighting the good fight with those selections (especially the feral). I'd personally go with the Bumgrinders over the Bumclad. They're really nice for 2, have a lovely ability that fits in with the force and the added bonus of being able to cast Primal for free should Mr Gorax need to get himself killed. Also with the massive threat ranges available to your army I really don't think you need the Bumclad.

EDIT: Where in the fuck is Martin? He's a fucking beast with eKrueger so I'd love see his thoughts.

He's busy stealing sweets and pushing over old ladies in the street.

Taking up Cryx indeed.

Fucks sake, I knew it would spiral out of control. In other news, what do you think? Bumgrinders or Bumclad?

I'd probably lean towards the bonegrinders with what you've got there. Bonus range is always nice (12" Gallows... Sweet!), and probably goes over and above what the wayfarer can do.
Plus they let you use the Gorax a bit more aggressively. Good times.

-Tom.

Thanks Tom, that was about my thinking. I own two blackclads (main sculpt and an IKRPG Potent Bradigus) but actually hardly ever field them. There just often feels like better ways of spending two points.

I'm still really undecided about what to take with him. I guess I'm going to have to try some games and swap things around.

List for tomorrow, assuming I don't have another change of heart / mind / pants:

eKrueger (+5)
-Gorax 4 (-1)
-Feral 9 (8)
-Woldwarden 9 (17)
-Megalith 11 (28)

Max Ravagers + UA 11 (39)
Shifting Stones x2 + UA 5 (44)
Min Bone Grinders 2 (46)

Mr The Feast 4 (50)

My approach to eKrueger is more like your 2nd list - Druids FTW.

IMO with eKrueger you want to have 2 geomancy models. One is not enough and 3 is bit too much (if we only had a light warbeast with geomancy...) as you don't get enough punch.

Against enemy with lots of high ARM models (Khador jacks, Trolls, etc.) Krueger is not going to try to kill them. He will move them around/to the side and kill the caster/win by scenario. Against infantry he has 2-4 Lightning Storms, Devouring, Rock Hammer, Force bolts. Feat to cripple them.

Tom and I have different approach to Kruger and way he is played. We also have own favourites as a main melee killer. He likes Feral, I never go out without Stalker. Pathfinder is the thing that makes him so good in my eyes.

Megalith is awesome and as such should never be out of the list. I'd pay 11pts for Fury 4 Warden alone and he also brings lots of other stuff. Take it.

Gorax - I was biggest Gorax enemy at the beginning. Now it is in every list I make.

Druids - they do so much it is pointless to list it. Best unit Circle have to offer. When I started I had same opinion as with Gorax - now I think I'll get them with Kromac too. With UA you can put own Lightning Storms on them and no harm will be done.

Stones - Heh. It was you who convinced me to take them. You know you want them... and Keeper too.

So that way the list wrote itself. Last step is to fill 9pts that's left.

Krueger the Stormlord (*5pts)
* Gorax (4pts)
* Warpwolf Stalker (10pts)
* Woldwarden (9pts)
* Megalith (11pts)
Druids of Orboros (7pts)
* Druid Overseer (2pts)
Shifting Stones (2pts)
* Stone Keeper (1pts)


Blackclad - it is nice model. Problem is - I could never make it work in Krueger's list. It just doesn't do much for me. I used his 2pts to upgrade 2nd Warden to Mega and I don't regret it.

Bonegrinders - same as blackclad. Nice, useful and cheap. Still they didn't work for me. I never needed +2" Range on Krueger's spells and it doesn't work with geomancy. I'd only take them with Cassius as Hellmouth is awesome with them.

Swamp Gobbers - 5" cloud is always good. And they are 1 point.

Pureblood - that is my pick for 9pts filler. Gives Ghostly, 10" Spray and PS18 if needed. I still feel those points could be spent better but so far I didn't find anything that suits me.


Tips:
* Remember about Krueger's lightning gun. Three POW12 shots is enough to kill DEF15 ARM15 warcaster (and Fenris. ) on boosted 9's. Any higher than that and you are pushing it.

* Model needs to be SPD5 to advance back to the same spot after feat. Smack them with Megalith for additional -3 and non-reach heavies are off for a turn.

* After enemy gets Weight of Stone and Undergrowth, Druids will hit it in melee with Megalith on +1 to hit.

* You can virtually gain up to +9 to hit - Weight of Stone, Undergrowth, Primal, Telekinesis to turn backwards.

* eCaine can't assassinate Krueger with Stormwall from more than 17" (unless he has Madelyn). If he end activation closer than that - you have about 50% to kill him with Krueger alone, better if Mega can get to 5" within him. Although you will die if you fail.

* If eDenny feated and caught Krueger in the zone - she should die as she is too close (Krueger is usually in the back) and you got plenty of Magical Weapons and spells. Kill Orin Midwinter ASAP.

* Remember - Krueger has Flight!

Hope I helped.

Cheers man. I'm going to stick with the Ravagers for tomorrow (proxied, because I need to see if I like them enough to spunk out 50+ quid for the full unit). However, I also want to give the druids a go. I'm one of those odd Circle players who's never got druids to work for me ... :shockedandappalledsmiley: yeah, I know. So as they seem absolutely made for eKrueger I will give them a try in due course.

The Stalker vs Feral argument is a non-starter for me really. They're both great, I generally take both, and am equally happy with either in the list.

However, having a hitty warpwolf with no Pureblood feels very wrong! Don't know how I'm going to deal with no pathfinder AND no ghostly. Those Ravagers had better kill some stuff dead.

Yawn... Movement shenanigans vs my Rasheth list with one ranged attack = fun for me!!! Much like all of our games Nick!!!

Nice to see blatant list tailoring on a public forum too... You're my hero!

(28-06-2011 09:42 AM)Shurse Wrote: [ -> ]Yawn... Movement shenanigans vs my Rasheth list with one ranged attack = fun for me!!! Much like all of our games Nick!!!

Nice to see blatant list tailoring on a public forum too... You're my hero!

If I wasn't being an utter c unt to you you'd just be disappointed, you know you would ...

TBH, I think your list will be pretty nasty against Nick's one. I would be most worried about the Ravagers, Then the stalker, then the wardens. The wardens are going to cause you trouble with all the telekinises flying around, so I would try to lock those down quickly. If you take out the stalker and the ravagers though you are a long way to stopping him having a way of assassinating you (though 3-4 gallows will be nasty).

Influence - not that great on ravagers, they are not good at killing each other (I have tried)
Blood Mark - This is great to kill his heavies, I suggest you cast it ASAP against something big, then on feat turn attack the first target, damage, feat and bounce it to another target, then kill that one.
Breath of Corruption - Very good for killing Ravagers and stones (I believe it will kill stones, since it is magic)

That is all...

Yeah, thanks Marcus... I was thinking much the same. I've only played eKreuger once before, and knowing how much of a devious bastard Nick is, I'm a still a little worried!

things to watch out for are him turning your beasts around with telekinesis, pushing them back and slowing them down with his feat, or gallowsing(sp?) one of them forward, charging with the stalker, killing it (easy with a stalker, it can kill anything), then sprinting away to safety.

Marcus, I've dropped the Stalker for a Feral and Stonekeeper.

No sprint shenanigans for me, though I have had some lulz at the thought of gallows my own Warpwolf back after it charges. A POW 13 > charging Titan

If you do that you really are cheating Nick... Gallows only pushes enemy models.

-Tom.

Ah, hadn't noticed that. Fortunately I didn't try it last night.

Steep learning curve on Krueger. It was a great game, real attrition grind. Steve finished it when I stupidly left a badly damaged Krueger in range of a Gatorman with both surviving beasts full on Fury. Squish, he went. Squish Squish Squish.

(29-06-2011 12:19 PM)Steelhead Plod Wrote: [ -> ]Ah, hadn't noticed that. Fortunately I didn't try it last night.

Steep learning curve on Krueger. It was a great game, real attrition grind. Steve finished it when I stupidly left a badly damaged Krueger in range of a Gatorman with both surviving beasts full on Fury. Squish, he went. Squish Squish Squish.

Nick - surely you remember - Krueger lives in the the big forest. THE BIG FOREST!!!

No charging you then...