(31-01-2012 01:02 PM)Ish Wrote: [ -> ] (31-01-2012 10:52 AM)CunningStunt Wrote: [ -> ] (31-01-2012 09:54 AM)Martin G Wrote: [ -> ]That is what you are Aidan, you slutty neverborn player... 
I think you'll find I'm an outcast player thankyouverymuch.
Keep changing your factions like other men change their boots and you ask why we call you a slut!? 
This is the first time I've officially changed factions.
Your boots must be pretty smelly...
(31-01-2012 01:02 PM)Ish Wrote: [ -> ] (31-01-2012 12:23 PM)Turbø Vish Wrote: [ -> ]So let me get this straight, a Forward Observer marks a target and as the target has no LOS then it's a normal roll. But as FO is now an attack, would it be better to Flash Pulse the target and then FO it? It seems crazy, but normal FO seems to put your guys into the line of fire pretty quickly.
Nope, flash pulse is an attack as well, both FO and FP are on the weapon list so it makes no difference which one you're doing. As you say, FO puts your guys into LoF, which is why you need pathfinders with sensors, or if you play dirty nomad scum, Hacking Device Plus and Markers...
Cheers Ish, I meant that if you flash pulse someone then they're forced to use Short Movement Skills, thus saving your FO from getting pasted when you declare FO on the target.
So they are, but I got used to them. You guys will suffer in Bruges though...
Vish, I know, but since it is your Forward Observer who does Flash Pulse, he will get shot at when trying to flash a model just the same as when he marks one. So imho it is worth going for marking if you have enough orders to drop the templates on them.
(31-01-2012 11:48 AM)slasher Wrote: [ -> ]-although HackerPlus device can mark a user as FO without LoF as per its own rules
(31-01-2012 01:02 PM)Ish Wrote: [ -> ]Yupp, it is an attack, so is flash pulse, and both can be done through HD+ or FO with sensors outside of LoF.
Yes you can
mark like this with FO (it does not say you cannot do this (so the assumption is that you CAN), but you
cannot ARO with a flash pulse in this manner. You still need LoF (just to clarify). So ignore Ish cos he was wrong:
"The use of the Flash Pulse is considered an Attack and it is a Short Skill or ARO which requires LoF (even using the Hacker Plus Device) and success at a Normal or Face to Face WIP roll. The target must roll BTS against Damage 13. The effect of the Flash Pulse is active until the end of that player turn."
http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Flash_Pulse
(31-01-2012 01:44 PM)Turbø Vish Wrote: [ -> ]Cheers Ish, I meant that if you flash pulse someone then they're forced to use Short Movement Skills, thus saving your FO from getting pasted when you declare FO on the target.
Vish's tactics are viable, but tbh it puts your man in exactly the same danger as marking with FO, and flash pulse doens't mark a target - So it's pretty much a wasted order as when you use the flash pulse there is nothing to stop your guy getting pasted, a successful flash pulse would have been a successful FO, so you'd have to do it again (to which they could then dodge), before you can start laying the smacketh down. Both only last until your own active turn is over, they don't carry into your opponent's active turn.
(31-01-2012 03:48 PM)TheOneYouKnow Wrote: [ -> ] (31-01-2012 11:48 AM)slasher Wrote: [ -> ]-although HackerPlus device can mark a user as FO without LoF as per its own rules
(31-01-2012 01:02 PM)Ish Wrote: [ -> ]Yupp, it is an attack, so is flash pulse, and both can be done through HD+ or FO with sensors outside of LoF.
Yes you can mark like this with FO (it does not say you cannot do this (so the assumption is that you CAN), but you cannot ARO with a flash pulse in this manner. You still need LoF (just to clarify). So ignore Ish cos he was wrong:
"The use of the Flash Pulse is considered an Attack and it is a Short Skill or ARO which requires LoF (even using the Hacker Plus Device) and success at a Normal or Face to Face WIP roll. The target must roll BTS against Damage 13. The effect of the Flash Pulse is active until the end of that player turn."
http://infinitythegame.wikispot.org/Flash_Pulse
Hah, I missed that.
(31-01-2012 03:48 PM)TheOneYouKnow Wrote: [ -> ] (31-01-2012 01:44 PM)Turbø Vish Wrote: [ -> ]Cheers Ish, I meant that if you flash pulse someone then they're forced to use Short Movement Skills, thus saving your FO from getting pasted when you declare FO on the target.
Vish's tactics are viable, but tbh it puts your man in exactly the same danger as marking with FO, and flash pulse doens't mark a target - So it's pretty much a wasted order as when you use the flash pulse there is nothing to stop your guy getting pasted, a successful flash pulse would have been a successful FO, so you'd have to do it again (to which they could then dodge), before you can start laying the smacketh down. Both only last until your own active turn is over, they don't carry into your opponent's active turn.
That is exactly what I said.
We should have just let Vish play that 'sneaky tactic' and waste his orders...
Let me go through the whole thing again, as I don't think you guys are getting what I'm trying to say.
You have a model you want to Forward Observe. Fortunately it's facing the wrong way. You advance an FO into LOF, and Flash Pulse the target. In response, the model can only turn to face as ARO. Now, that model has LOF to your Forward Observer. You can now FO the target, and not fear taking a BS ARO to the face.
If you do it the other way round, then the target would get FO'd but now any other actions by your model would provoke BS ARO as the model has turned to face and is not Flash Pulsed. This can be a major problem as you don't want to lose your model.
So in short:
1) Sometimes it's better to Flash Pulse the target first, as it means you have an easier way to put pressure on that model as it cannot surmount an effective defense against you at range.
2) If the target of the FO has multiple wounds, then it can be highly likely that it might survive you Spec Fire grenades/whatever and make things difficult. By Flash Pulsing the target, you can effectively extract your model after FOing the target without fear of getting shot.
Do you guys get it? It's not a sneaky tactic, it's to do with model placement, board control and decreasing your opponents options while FOing from a position of safety. I know I'm not being stupid and wasting orders.
I get your point there, but why would I waste orders doing anything else after marking, but to launch guided ammo? So unless you FO'd your target from a very close range (in which case it would have turned facing anyway so again, out of context), you can just shoot the crap out of it and then move your forward observer again.
Re: multiple wounds target, the GML is AP+EXP on the original target, i believe, so they would roll 3 armour saves with halved armour per order spent on it (up to 3 in your case, 5 in mine), so unless you're up against Andy who will dodge and hack and ninja-roll out of everything, the target will go down.
(01-02-2012 12:29 PM)Ish Wrote: [ -> ]so unless you're up against Andy who will dodge and hack and ninja-roll out of everything, the target will go down.
hahah he's still bitter
Guys, if Cutter or Sphinx is camouflaged and as a marker, can it move trough gaps his normal base wouldn't fit? O.o like narrow doors or something like that?
Also:
If I fire flamer at enemy model in cover (lets say HI or other multi-wound model), it fails 1st ARM roll, does it get +3ARM on following rolls? It is burning, not being shot at in the end.
Yes. I found it on wiki.
no, the token cant move anywhere where the model wouldnt be able to be placed eg inside a building,
Being a token doesnt change the size of the model, just the vision other models have of it
Actually... if the physical model fits then you can do it. It's in the FAQ somewhere and was discussed on the forums a while back, tried looking for the thread and FAQ itself but it's evading me atm. Base as nothing to do with it.
If the model itself wouldn't fit then the above applies... you wouldn't be able to place the camo marker anywhere the model wouldn't fit.
dolt... (me that is) yeah Andy's right.... its in the FAQ talking about can models go through terrain is the model could fit but the base cant.
(04-04-2012 03:42 PM)TheOneYouKnow Wrote: [ -> ]Actually... if the physical model fits then you can do it. It's in the FAQ somewhere and was discussed on the forums a while back, tried looking for the thread and FAQ itself but it's evading me atm. Base as nothing to do with it.
If the model itself wouldn't fit then the above applies... you wouldn't be able to place the camo marker anywhere the model wouldn't fit.
+1 to that, it is not the base size but the size of the actual model.
And exactly so with the marker. Had to learn all this for my
:heart:Clausewitz Uhlan
aka Santa Clausewitz.
I hope you modelled an appropriate hat on him!
Given that this is likely to become important in the slow grow with lots of newer players, it's *still something I occasionally get wrong, and it's an awesome summary:
http://www.infinitythegame.com/forum/sho...pid=187939
Reproduced here:
Infinity Skill/ARO declaration timings
Chosen as part of a skill declaration:
What model or models are activating.
What skill is being used.
The exact path of an active model's movement.
What enemy model or models are the target of a skill.
For shooting, what weapon is being used.
The position of a template, when firing a weapon that uses one. *
What EVO repeater functions are being used by a hacker.
Chosen during order resolution, before rolling any dice:
How a burst is to be split between targets.
The specific locations involved in shooting (where from and to). **
Chosen during resolution, after (some) dice have been rolled:
Use of LT order or V:Courage to automatically pass a Guts roll.
Where a model will move after a failed Guts roll.
Whether a wounded model will activate V:Dogged to avoid becoming unconscious.
Unknown cases:
Ammo type for MULTI weapons.
Path taken for ARO movement (dodges).
What repeater is being used for a hacking attack (if there is more than one option).
Notes:
* This is the consensus on this FAQ pending issue. If you don't place a template at attack declaration time, its hard to know which models with sixth sense should get AROs (e.g. if you shotgun them in the back or fire a missile from combat camo).
** This is something that I don't especially agree with myself, but I'm listing it here because there did seem to be a near consensus for choosing the firing locations only after the skill declarations are complete (with rule justification based on the passage that says you can pick the best cover/weapon range bands).
Seeing as you MUST declare ALL order intentions before any actual orders are carried out (to allow for proper ARO response), the specific locations involved in shooting MUST be revealed to your opponent. There is no ambiguity in the rules for that.
This is why there is a problem with the possibility of an intercept into CC dodge ARO. It's yet to be fully resolved on the FAQ, and has been the cause of much debate in the Infinity forums... but Yasir seems to be saying you CAN dodge into CC. It is creating a few headaches tbh as there are discrepancies, but Yasir tends to get things right being that he is pretty close to the hub of CB.
Ideal world. You declear ammo durring resolution but before dice (so at the same time as splitting a burst) ie "MR, burst 3 but I'm using DA so Burst 2 & I'm putting one on the Keistosu and one on the Domaru"
Dodging - you declare the movement path when declaring the ARO ie "I'm going to dodge to the corner of this building" Or "I'm going to dodge the bullet but stay where I am."
Repeaters - Again you declear which repeater you are using when saying that your hacking ie "I'll ARO hack you from the repeater behind the wall not the one in front of you"
Also I'm with Andy... you say the path your walking*... opponent says they will ARO with Ballistics when you where completly in the open... you say second order 'I'll BS with X weapon at the closest point... which was here'
*now I move the model at this point but thats a personal (house) rule but yeah your not supposed to move the model till after both parts decleared
(11-04-2012 03:46 PM)slasher Wrote: [ -> ]Ideal world. You declear ammo durring resolution but before dice (so at the same time as splitting a burst) ie "MR, burst 3 but I'm using DA so Burst 2 & I'm putting one on the Keistosu and one on the Domaru"
Agreed
Quote:Dodging - you declare the movement path when declaring the ARO ie "I'm going to dodge to the corner of this building" Or "I'm going to dodge the bullet but stay where I am."
Given that they stress a number of times that move in ARO and dodge are synonymous, I agree, but we don't move the models yet due to below comments...
Quote:Repeaters - Again you declear which repeater you are using when saying that your hacking ie "I'll ARO hack you from the repeater behind the wall not the one in front of you"
Yep.
Quote:Also I'm with Andy... you say the path your walking*... opponent says they will ARO with Ballistics when you where completly in the open... you say second order 'I'll BS with X weapon at the closest point... which was here'
*now I move the model at this point but thats a personal (house) rule but yeah your not supposed to move the model till after both parts decleared
The rules are fuzzy here in my mind, as you are meant to demonstrate the exact path that you are moving. I don't remember it saying you don't move here, though it does lead to confusion in the second half of the order.
1: 'I move here'
2: 'I ARO ballistics at you'
1: 'I shoot you when I was back here'
2: 'wah?'
I suppose that the 'other' way of doing it does make it clear that the two short orders are linked together into a full order before it all happens... At the end of the day it doesn't matter much though....
According to the forums, and again specifically referring to Yasir's posts about the game, the model moves as you describe everything, so the ARO can be made at the actual time it happens, but in effect none of that happens if you catch my drift. It just makes everything easier to visualise for both players (whilst also making the game that little more cinematic). Of course, all rolls are made and then the move is officially carried out per se.