Like I said before - get a budget together.
What are your expenses this year?
Web site
Domain Name
PLI
Scenery
Board Replacement
Sponsorship of Guts N Gears
So how much does that cost?
Weight that up against your incoming funds which essentially is table fees. Are you making too much money to cover your costs? Then what are you going to do about it?
No one as yet has answered how much money is in the likkle red tin yet ;-)
BTW Happy to share the budget xls that I have for Tanelorn and FYI we have about £1200 in the bank. It would be interesting to see how that compares to a club that has essentially little or no outgoings at present.
Just my two cents, but I would feel just as uncomfortable with the committee paying as I would with the committee being paid.
But I think this is one of those things that should, at some point, go to the vote.
I think most members would be happy with the committee playing for free in exchange for the work that they put in, but it would be nice for the committee to have the figures to back that up, to prevent anyone feeling put-out.
Once you get involved with things like budgeting though (which is think is a good idea as the club grows) you have to be a little more active with things like collecting that money!
(23-03-2010 02:44 PM)nepalese ninja Wrote: [ -> ]Like I said before - get a budget together.
What are your expenses this year?
Web site
Domain Name
PLI
Scenery
Board Replacement
Sponsorship of Guts N Gears
So how much does that cost?
Weight that up against your incoming funds which essentially is table fees. Are you making too much money to cover your costs? Then what are you going to do about it?
No one as yet has answered how much money is in the likkle red tin yet ;-)
BTW Happy to share the budget xls that I have for Tanelorn and FYI we have about £1200 in the bank. It would be interesting to see how that compares to a club that has essentially little or no outgoings at present.
LOL about the guts and gears sponsorship
Conrad, could you send that sheet over, then we can go through our budget. I will pm you my email address.
As for the rest of your questions, we are working on it. Everyone; I know you are all eager to find out all this stuff and get it sorted out, but you will have to bear with us. We are trying to get all the costs together and analyse it, but it takes time, and we do not want to rush it and make any mistakes. Also, we are trying to put a budget together for all the new boards, so we can see how much is been invested and in what. We have about 150 links to different terrain and ideas to sort through and work out what we will spend the money on and where. (BTW, if you want anything in particular then please get on the specific boards and post. We have lots of good ideas and stuff, but new information is always good).
We have taken quite a casual attitude to everything so far, since it is a pretty chilled out club. This goes for fee collection as well. As regulars will know, we are very lax on collecting fees from people. Also, as we have said before, the club is going through a transition with new commitee members (appointed about a month ago). Since we are getting everything laid out properly, we need to make sure it is all workable and clear to everyone. Personally I do not want to rush it since it will be worse if we start changing everything in the future. We have already met once to discuss certain things, but we all work full time, so this takes time.
Bottom line is like I already said, where money is involved, people/persons are accountable for that money. How do you know as club members that no one who has access to the likkle wed tin has for example bought a round of drinks, some blisters, paints, what ever. OFC I am not saying that the committee has done this but without an being open, honest, approachable then people dont know - hence my questions above and me providing you with the balance of the TWGC bank account in comparison to a club that does pay for a venue. We pay £20 per week for our venue. Our club budget covers things like those I mentioned above. I know that the club will be financially secure this year. I know that I can go and replace our boards comfortably and buy some terrain. I know that we can subsidise our club members when we run our own events. I know that we can subsidise club shirts this year. All this because of the budget which is freely available to our club members and is shown and openly discussed at the AGM. If we have to react to some unknown expense or a change we can do as we have the underlying financial information.
Ok, i'll put my serious hat on:
As a comittee member for the last guild of melee and magic that was running in the uk (Board games co-ordinator for 4 years) - (p.s. It's still running under a different name now as the pheonix games club in plaistow) I do have some experience in this,
This is how we did it:
1) Comittee members are not paid but do get any club related expenses returned.
2) There is open accounts, reviewable by club members upon request. One member of the comittee volenteered for it. (chairman, accountant, Roleplaying games co-ordinator, board games co-ordinator, Internet co-ordinator and card games co-ordinator)
As a non-profit organisation every year we had a Annual General Meeting where the comittee members were voted in (I don't think that's nessecary here) and then there'd be a quiz, and the winner of the quiz would choose a charity (the previous years winner would put a restriction on it - like london based (that one went to hems) or animal based (battersea dogs home got that) for exess funds to go to
- maybe some can be put aside for a project e.g. scenery for the big things.
We also subsidised a christmas meal, for example the all you can eat mongolian barbecue normally got 30-40 gamers in silly hats drinking from pitchers, as it was half price.
You also had the option of getting £ 10 back from one convention / event per year.
The club prices were £ 1.00 if unemployed / disabled / pensioner, and £ 2.00 if not, for club members. Non club members add 50p. (Annual club membership was £ 10, so if you were going to a convention, like salute it was basically free)
They also arranged for discounts (10% - 15%) with the club members at shops like playing games (until they changed hands), so it was very good.
Seriously though, you have absolutely no idea how hard it is to open a bank account for a club, and it's even worse when you change names on who can withdraw from it.
If we're going to go down that route then there's a nightmare of hideous complications r.e. rights and rules, you really will be surprised at just what crud you have to do and to what extent. (policy on childeren - we banned anyone under 18 just because it was such a nightmare, and had to include clauses about the pub we were in's policy, code of conduct and what to do if it's broken - god help if it's a comittee member etc etc.)
Oh, the club was roughly the same turnout, but there was nothing like scenery and tables provided - I think we get some exellent kit here.
(23-03-2010 02:44 PM)nepalese ninja Wrote: [ -> ]No one as yet has answered how much money is in the likkle red tin yet ;-)
Last count up £1.2m I believe
we used a quid for a scratch card u see....
(25-03-2010 03:46 PM)EdSmasha Wrote: [ -> ] (23-03-2010 02:44 PM)nepalese ninja Wrote: [ -> ]No one as yet has answered how much money is in the likkle red tin yet ;-)
Last count up £1.2m I believe we used a quid for a scratch card u see....
Oi! That was my quid
Nothing related to money or venue or anything serious like that, but I'd like to know where the forum logo has gone. Can understand if it's the least of everyone's worries.
Perhaps a quick recap of the situation with the committe is in order.
First of all, I think there has been a misconception of construing openmindedness and seeking feedback with cluelessness and incompetence. This is not the case.
Regarding the club finances. The historical pattern has been that when the cash in the club reaches a critical mass we order a new set of scenery. Perhaps you remember the last time we did this was when we bought the AT43 scenery, the ruined temple columns and the pirate ship piece of terrain, as well as some other bits. The big money sink last time around was the Anphelion Base. As you can see from the Forgeworld website, that costs quite a lot, and that put quite a dent in our finances. Painting the Anphelion base was quite an effort, and that amount of work coupled with the lukewarm reception of the piece of terrain sucked a little bit of enthusiasm out of the committee members at the time, and we hit a little bit of a lull. We apologise for the hiatus, but now we find ourselves reinvigorated with new members and a huge amount of goodwill and energy.
As far as the spirit of the club is concerned, I always viewed this as a passion and a hobby. I think I played at the club 3 or 4 times this year so far. That means that at most I was given 12 pounds benefit in kind over a 3 month period. That to me doesnt seem offensive or preposterous. The committee members and Chris in particular have always been transparent and open about how much money was banked by the club and how we intended to spend it. I think to suggest that we open a bank account could perhaps be seen as souring the mood and spirit of trust and camaraderie that I think so far has served us well. Committee members volunteer to spend the better part of their weekend assembling things for the club, or opening their house for gatherings etc precisely because of this spirit of camaraderie and community that binds us.
Perhaps I got it wrong, and please correct me on this if I have. Different clubs have different operations and motivations. I appreciate a fresh point of view nepaleseninja, but I think our club has found a groove with regards to spirit, trust and accountability. I agree that transparency, accountability and organisation are a good thing. However to suggest implementing a whole swathe of rules and tasks purely for the sake of some fictional administrative concept I think in our case could be counterproductive, controversial and incredibly inefficient.
Therefore concluding, I think it is fair to admit there has been a hiatus for the reasons described above, and for that once again I apologise. To my fellow committe members, thank you for the enthusiastic contributions. To my fellow club members, thank you for supporting the club, and for creating a wonderfully openminded community. The club is a creation of the club members.
Regards
Filippo
Filippo - interesting that you guys took it upon yourselves to paint the base. Are the committee responsible for providing the scenery as well? There is this thing called delegation - its wonderful. Alternatively, if it doesn't come ready made/pre-painted then dont do it because the risk of doing it yourselves is exactly what happened and it willl kick the hell out of you and you will then wonder why you do the job you do as committee members. So delegate to trusted club members who have demonstrated their hobby skills at the club in the shape of their armies of what ever.
Make sure you get new blood in on the committee every year or every 2 years. It becomes draining doing this sort of thing year in year out so expect drop offs on the committee and plan accordingly. This is called succession planning.
Communicate, communicate, communicate. 90% of problems are caused by lack of proper communication.
Your call re the finances but I'm telling you know you are heading for a world of pain. If you are satisfied with your controls and you are happy that no one person has control over the finances, then thats fine. If there is doubt then you dont have the proper controls in place and your are open to abuse.
@ Marcus - PM your email address - my work email address is conrad.gonsalves@ge.com. Happy to send you the budget sheet. It really is very easy but what it does it helps focus and that then gives control and direction and helps planning.
For example what happens if the Bell & Compass has new owners who don't want you where you are and you have to go to a new venue that charges for storage and use. What if the Bell & Compass decide to charge you?
Like I said before I just trying to help. I've been doing hobby, tournament, club work for 15 years now.
(25-03-2010 06:56 PM)saryrn Wrote: [ -> ]Regards
Filippo
Hear hear.
I hope my two pence wasn't misconstrued, we really do get exellent scenery here and admin (like this forum) which is taken for granted.
I would strongly suggest against opening a bank account, as it's such hassle, or if it's so desired let those who want it set it up. They'll get quite fed up after a few months, a dozen meetings and swathes of paperwork, let alone the 14 months my last club took to just change a name. Oh, it really is that bad - I'm not exagerating, mark my words.
2) Making the club more of a club: I think Luke mentioned this elsewhere, but perhaps a monthly drinking session might be a good idea so that members can meet each other outside of turning up and playing. For some people who just like to turn up and fight, this isn't so much of an issue, but for others (especially those who may have moved to London leaving behind gaming groups, or those who prefer the modeling, painting and fluff side of things), gaming is also a social experience, and it'd be good for people to get to know one another outside of the Tuesday night events. I've been coming to the club for years now and made some good friends there, but sometimes I'll look at a forum username and not have a clue who it is!
i like this suggestion!
I don't think the finances need be so strictly controlled, I'm not sure a bank account is necessary (although it would protect it and gain a small amount of interest should it raise to any decent level), but a detailed account of how much is in the kitty every month IS, certainly in my eyes, an important necessity. This shows trust in the club and account holder (by not having such a strict bank system implemented) and shows trust to the members by being completely open about what goes on.
Regarding committee members paying/not paying/being paid, I don't think it's such a bad thing that they don't have to pay with the amount of work they put into the club, they have succeeded in managing a very friendly and open club that makes you feel instantly at home. I would feel extremely uncomfortable if they were to BE paid though.
The issue of the pub is something to be tackled when and if it happens. There are many options in the largest city in Britain, a short term solution would be easy to reach, and if it was a case of get out and go, I'm sure between all of the members we could find a replacement venue or at least a halfway decent temporary solution. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It is my understanding that there are members already looking for another venue anyway, if this proves to be better, but at a cost, then this can all be factored in from the little red tin. Btw. I propose a motion to paint it black.
Some of you have seen my work with my marines others have not, but if you ever decide to do large projects again, I am more than willing to help out. I do have a limit to my time contributions as I am a new Dad and I'm also have many other things I'm working on at the moment, but anything I can do I will because I really enjoyed my time down at the club and can't wait to get back for more gaming!
I'm now a paid up member:
I don't mind committee members not paying table fees if they are organising stuff.
As for general running, I think for equity's sake - all those in the 1st session to be therer to put out all the bits and bobs and all people leaving in the end session should hlp put them away.
I've been 3 times, arrive eraly and always put out the stuff - more than what I actually use. Unfortunately sometimes I see some people turning up late - doing less than there fair share. I think a fair rule is that if you use a board you either put it out or take it away (one or the other). If people haven't turned up in time - tough - they put there own board out when they get there. This way the considerate people (of which I'm sure 99% are) who turn up early don't keep having to put up boards for those coming fashionably late.
Just a suggestion.
(28-03-2010 12:08 AM)dezul Wrote: [ -> ]2) Making the club more of a club: I think Luke mentioned this elsewhere, but perhaps a monthly drinking session might be a good idea so that members can meet each other outside of turning up and playing. For some people who just like to turn up and fight, this isn't so much of an issue, but for others (especially those who may have moved to London leaving behind gaming groups, or those who prefer the modeling, painting and fluff side of things), gaming is also a social experience, and it'd be good for people to get to know one another outside of the Tuesday night events. I've been coming to the club for years now and made some good friends there, but sometimes I'll look at a forum username and not have a clue who it is!
i like this suggestion!
I think this is something many would like to develop. Hard to do on Tuedays because of limited space, (we may be able to solve this problem in the near future) so for the time being we will have to look at a monthly get together somewhere.
Maybe my house? you could bring a brush!
(28-03-2010 01:25 PM)TheOneYouKnow Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think the finances need be so strictly controlled, I'm not sure a bank account is necessary (although it would protect it and gain a small amount of interest should it raise to any decent level), but a detailed account of how much is in the kitty every month IS, certainly in my eyes, an important necessity. This shows trust in the club and account holder (by not having such a strict bank system implemented) and shows trust to the members by being completely open about what goes on.
Regarding committee members paying/not paying/being paid, I don't think it's such a bad thing that they don't have to pay with the amount of work they put into the club, they have succeeded in managing a very friendly and open club that makes you feel instantly at home. I would feel extremely uncomfortable if they were to BE paid though.
The issue of the pub is something to be tackled when and if it happens. There are many options in the largest city in Britain, a short term solution would be easy to reach, and if it was a case of get out and go, I'm sure between all of the members we could find a replacement venue or at least a halfway decent temporary solution. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It is my understanding that there are members already looking for another venue anyway, if this proves to be better, but at a cost, then this can all be factored in from the little red tin. Btw. I propose a motion to paint it black.
Some of you have seen my work with my marines others have not, but if you ever decide to do large projects again, I am more than willing to help out. I do have a limit to my time contributions as I am a new Dad and I'm also have many other things I'm working on at the moment, but anything I can do I will because I really enjoyed my time down at the club and can't wait to get back for more gaming!
Appreciate the offer for some help mate!
We have the members section of the forum up now so will look to do something about the finances there.
At some stage we will poll regarding the comittee members table fees but not much point till more people upgrade their forum accounts (Hint to all members who have not PM'd me yet!
)
Venue is something I'm quite interested in atm, but we are prepared and secure for anything that could happen in this regard.
(31-03-2010 02:44 PM)robmcd Wrote: [ -> ]I'm now a paid up member:
I don't mind committee members not paying table fees if they are organising stuff.
As for general running, I think for equity's sake - all those in the 1st session to be therer to put out all the bits and bobs and all people leaving in the end session should hlp put them away.
I've been 3 times, arrive eraly and always put out the stuff - more than what I actually use. Unfortunately sometimes I see some people turning up late - doing less than there fair share. I think a fair rule is that if you use a board you either put it out or take it away (one or the other). If people haven't turned up in time - tough - they put there own board out when they get there. This way the considerate people (of which I'm sure 99% are) who turn up early don't keep having to put up boards for those coming fashionably late.
Just a suggestion.
I'm more than happy to put everything out and away and consider anyones help a favour and not a necessity. many do help and its greatly appreciated!
I cant always be there for 6 due to work which is a problem.
Due to limited access to the cupboard its necessary to get everything out at once. If your there early and everything is brough through get your table set and get going. I understand where your coming from so I'll think about how we can make this fair for everyone and we can chat about it a bit next week.
Regards,
Chris
Chris if the forum software is worth any thing there should be a way of blanket PM or emailing users a message - ie upgrade your account.
I do the web site as well for Tanelorn and we use phpBB and I know this does it and I am sure others do as well.
(31-03-2010 05:56 PM)nepalese ninja Wrote: [ -> ]Chris if the forum software is worth any thing there should be a way of blanket PM or emailing users a message - ie upgrade your account.
I do the web site as well for Tanelorn and we use phpBB and I know this does it and I am sure others do as well.
Why are you doing that? did i miss something?
(31-03-2010 11:23 PM)TheamazingPete Wrote: [ -> ] (31-03-2010 05:56 PM)nepalese ninja Wrote: [ -> ]Chris if the forum software is worth any thing there should be a way of blanket PM or emailing users a message - ie upgrade your account.
I do the web site as well for Tanelorn and we use phpBB and I know this does it and I am sure others do as well.
Why are you doing that? did i miss something?
Nope your already signed up and have access to the members forum Pete