Cross Gaming Club Forums

Another rules question. In the Incorporeal entry in the pdf, and I hope it says the same in the book, it says:

"Other models, including slammed, pushed, or thrown models, can move through this model without effect if they have enough movement to move completely past it. This model does not count as an intervening model."

Does it mean it cannot be knocked down by a throw or pushed by a push PA? It clearly says later "This model cannot be moved by a slam", but nothing else about other PAs.

You can't do a power attack since it is Incorporeal, unless you have a jack/beast who count their attacks as magical (not just their weapons, since a push is done by the jack, not its weapons). I would say that it is not knocked down, though the rules are not clear on this. It says the slammed model moves through the Incorporeal model, but not that it is not knocked down. I would play it that the Incorporeal is not knocked down though since I am sure that is RAI. plus I dont have the book to check.

I was checking this one too when I came back home.

It says '(...) thrown models, can move through this model without effect if they have enough movement to move completely past it.' I don't know what 'can' really means in this sentence. Can I choose not to move through the model to let it suffer the effect of a PA? And if a throw is a direct hit on the Incorporeal model, then does it suffer the effect as model thrown did not 'move completely past it'?

Basically martin, can means - if you throw a model or slam a model they move through an incoporial model model as if it wasn't there. you can't choose to move through it or not. So while can in certain rules means you choose, in this case you dont choose.

So if you hit a model directly that is incoporial - you would simply move the incoporial model like it was hit, but nothing would happen to it.

Also martin I heard about your win on tuesday, do you mind me asking how you pulled off the assassination?

He explained it in the other thread, pop over there, we have the discussion on the rules.

Really! I have to learn how to read!

The above answer to Web of Shadows is right, you can't charge as it is a penalty to movement, so you can't jump either.

Circle is actually reasonably well equipped to deal with eDenny, Shifting Stones are almost a must have in my armies at 35 or up, and Wardens still have a lot of effectiveness under Shadow Bind...
It is still a horrific feat.


Regarding Incorporeal and slamming/throwing, because a power attack is not made using melee weapons (although some require you to have specific ones - ie: open fists), they are not affected at all by throws or slams.
They can be targetted by them, but as they are immune to effects and damage from everything except magical weapons, magic attacks, animi, spells, and feats...
The movement part of throws and pushes is an effect of the attack, so incorporeal models are immune to them.
The Slam part means that magical slams and/or smites (like Caine's Thunderbolt, Warden's chain attack etc) means that the Incorporeal model will get knocked down and suffer damage, but not be moved.
This does not affect magical pushes (Gallows etc) or throws (Krueger's Tornado) as they are not specifically disregarded.

Exciting rules questions GO!

-Tom.

If I cast spell/animus that affects a model (Wraithbane for instance) on a unit (Wolf Riders), does other models in the unit get the bonus? Can I cast it at all?

According to the WM pdf, and I'm pretty sure it's the same case for Hordes.

"If a special rule or spell specifies “target unit,” it must target a trooper in a unit but will affect all models in the unit. Effects that specify “target model/unit” can target any model, including non-troopers, but if the target model is a trooper the effect will apply to the entire unit."

Basically, to cast a spell on a unit you just need to be able to target a trooper in it, so I guess you can and the whole unit gain the bonus.

(16-08-2010 11:07 AM)Martin G Wrote: [ -> ]If I cast spell/animus that affects a model (Wraithbane for instance) on a unit (Wolf Riders), does other models in the unit get the bonus? Can I cast it at all?

That looks like a right answer. And the one I like too. Woolf riders with magical weapons to get rid of those nasty Pistol wraiths.

If a warlock is hit by a weapon with a special ability which needs to inflict damage to the target to trigger, like Reaper's Drag or pDenny's Shadow Bind, and he transfers the damage to a warbeast, does the special ability get to trigger? and if it does, is it on the warlock or on the warbeast? I've read in the pdf that the warlock is still considered to have taken the damage, so I guess it should be affected by the special ability, but I'd like to confirm this point.

@ Martin - Nice try. I think the explanation micho quotes is only meant to cover how you cast a spell on a unit. ie you target one model in the unit, and it affects all of them. However, that's for "target model/unit" spells. Wraithbane is "target model". I'm pretty sure that means you can target one model in a unit, but only that model gets the effect.

I've used it before on Bloodweavers - unit charges a Warbeast (can't remember what, Cyclops I think) with some + DEF/ARM spell on it (Defender's Ward?) taking it to around DEF15. Leader with Wraithbane does a Dispel attack to knock off the upkeep, ignoring the DEF buff on her attack, and removing it for the rest of the unit.

It's potentially useful in units, but really intended for Beasts and Warlocks.

@ Micho - I think it does trigger on the Warlock. I'm pretty sure only damage is transferred, effects / triggers etc don't. Somebody with Primal 2 may be able to correct me on this (mine arrives next week, at last!)

You almost have it, but not quite. If the spell/animi says target model then only one model can be affected. If it says target model/unit (for example lightning tendrils) then it will affect a whole unit. So no, you cant get wolf riders with magical weapons, only one wolf rider.

micho - I think you are correct, he takes the damage, and it is then moved to a beast, but the effects would happen. I will wait for someone better than me to confirm though since I do not have the book to hand.

Damn it.. Well one should be enough to get rid of PWraith. BTW, is model's mount magical weapon then? O.O

Just to confirm, if damage is transferred, but there is an effect that triggers on damage (ie: Weight of Stone on Baldur and Megalith), the model that transferred still counts as being damaged, and thus suffers the effect.
Ref. Primal mk2, p77, Damage Transference: "...This model is still considered to have suffered damage even if the damage is transferred..."

Oh, and regarding the Wolf Rider/Blessed question, everyone above me has it right, it's "target model", so only affects the specific target, but it does affect all of it's weapons, so you'd have a javelin, thrown javelin and mount attack, all with the 'magic weapon' attribute. Good, magical times.

-Tom.

OK, I got another question. If a warjack has more than one *attack, can it do one initially and then another one (but different) spending 1 focus?

Nopers.
A *Attack replaces your initial attacks, in essence it is traded for them.
You can only use focus (or, indeed, fury) to buy additional attacks, which are made with normal melee weapons etc. This means no making throws etc after making your initial attacks.
On a side, but slightly related, note: You can also only buy additional attacks that are the same type as the initial attack (or special attack).

-Tom.

Ok, it was some time since I came up with something silly.. I have a game next week against Lewis and wanted to give Mohsar a go. I know Nick is playing him, but from what I saw he is running mostly/only living beasts. I went for all constructs and magic heavy. Nick, how do you do it with the old man? We'll be playing 25pts so I came up with construct list (I only have Mohsar so I'm going to proxy rest of the stuff ):

Army: Old Man's Sticks
Type: Duel (1 caster, 25pts)
Points: 25
Mohsar the Desertwalker (*5pts)
* Megalith (11pts)
* Woldguardian (9pts)
* Woldwarden (9pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)

At that point I started to think how to use the stuff to the best effect and came up with following question (pretty long prologue to easy question I suppose ):

If Worldwarden/Megalith/Warlock is in combat can he cast OFF spells? Let's say I have Mohsar in melee with some not to nice infantry models. Can I Crevasse one of them and spray some more? Same with Megalith/Warden. Can they use Crevasse to get rid of some nasty models on one side of them (before moving) then let's say trample to kill the ones on the other side?

From what I've read in Primal it is valid. Hell, it seems I can even cast spells out of combat targeting models I'm not engaged to if I only have LOS (and with large base it won't be that difficult). It all looks bit too good, that is why I'm asking.

Having just checked Primal, you're all good to do that.
I thought there was a -4 attack penalty for targeting a model you weren't in melée with (if you were in melée), but it doesn't seem to be there so maybe I imagined it.
Anyway, enjoy your spell-y doom!

-Tom.

That's right dude, no restrictions on casting if the caster's in melee. +4 DEF to the target if it is engaged, unless the caster is the only one engaging it.

And Martin, I generally only play living beasts with Mohsar because like you, I love the doggies ... The old git is great with Constructs though. Warden and Meg for Geomancy, Guardian keeps the brittle old man a bit safer from ranged. Also, Mohsar is one of the only Circle 'locks who can improve the otherwise so-so melee damage output of the Construct beasts. Also, Mirage improves their mediocre speed. And Mohsar has Fury to burn, so can happily afford 2 on Meg's animus. All in all, I reckon your list should work really nicely.