This is just something I am beginning to play about with on paper as I am building up bikes atm. It's by no means set in stone, and I will probably add a couple of alternatives as I come up with them. Anyway, here is the first list:
HQ:
Kor'Sarro Khan riding Moondraken - 205
Command Squad (bikes, 2xflamer, 2xmelta, standard) - 250
TROOPS:
Bike Squad (2 xtra bikes, attack bike, powersword, plasmagun) - 220
Bike Squad (2 xtra, attack w/mm, 2xmeltaguns) - 220
FAST ATTACK:
Land Speeder (two multi-meltas) - 80
Land Speeder Typhoon - 90
HEAVY:
Vindicator - 115
Land Raider Crusader (multi-melta) - 260
Predator - 60
TOTAL = 1500
The idea is that everything is fast or at the least mechanised. Obviously there are only two troops choices, so maybe this is something that might be changed around. Plenty of melta weapons and weapons to tackle hoards, and it's pretty decent on the charge with Khan (with his furious charge and hit and run chapter tactics).
Why the LRC if you're not going to be using it's transport capacity? Couldn't another variant be better?
Only because that's what I have model wise. I prefer it to the redeemer as it can really make a mess of hoard armies and low toughness armies close in, once it's hurricane bolters can rapid fire.
I was debating with myself over it's inclusion, and in the next one I will probably drop it in favour of a hyped predator, or some devs.
I would add 2 powerfists to the command squad to help khan out.
Also in terms of troops i think the two bike units are fine as they can combat squad to 4 right? (dont have the codex to hand)
If I added the power fists I would definitely have to drop the land raider. But I could easily add a four ml dev squad and have 110 points to play with still. So 50 on powerfists leaves me 60 to play with. I could add a couple of extra bikers to the troop squads, or beef out the predator a bit.
How about some Scout Bikers? Good for infiltrating and sneaking on to objectives.
That was another thing I had considered. I quite like the booby trap thing on area terrain too (though I'm not sure how effective it would be in most games). Whatever I add in I need to keep the army fast and hard hitting... hmmm maybe I should just buy Codex: Blood Angels! lol
I like the booby trap thing: most objectives in games are placed on area terrain, I find, so that could work quite well. Or if not bikers, how about a Landspeeder Storm with a squad of Scouts? You can disrupt any deep strikers that way, too, which will help you focus on taking out the opponent army bit by bit (which I think with so few units, you would probably have to aim to do).
On a mechanised note, if you want to go with Devastators, then surely a razorback would be required, otherwise the poor chaps will have to do an awful lot of running to keep up with the rest of the fast attack mob
TL heavy bolters or assault cannon to replace the land raider anti-infantry role?
If I included devastators they wouldn't need to be mechanised as most of the weapons they can field will reach the enemy on any standard board, so they would be the exception to the mech list and form a static fire base. Of course this would mean I have to rely on decent enough terrain in my deployment area for cover saves, but that usually isn't a problem. I don't usually field a multi-melta in my devastators so that would be the only weapon unlikely to reach from turn one (it's all about missile launchers or maybe a lascannon). They also can't take assault cannons, and heavy bolters would be pointless when missile launchers provide a much better anti-infantry role along with the option of anti-tank depending on what they fire in that turn.
Hmmmm what to field. As I say, this list is a slow burner as I don't have all the bikes etc I need to field it anyway, so I have ample time to think about it and get suggestions.
I think it will be fun to play with though!
I'm a big fan of the fast biker Marine list, having played an all-Ravenwing army for some time.
I'd suggest taking a look at a Dark Angels / Ravenwing tactica as you will principally be using the same sort of gameplan.
In general a few things to keep in mind.
1. I don't like the idea of a static firebase in an otherwise mobile army, especially if it's a single Devs squad. A Razorback would be a nice idea, both because it adds to the firepower and because it allows fast repositioning mid-game if necessary. Alternatively, try to include organic heavy weapons into your fast attackers. Land Speeders, though fragile, are excellent in this role, as are attack bike squads.
2. Don't be tempted to think that a marine bike army is a CC-oriented army. It's really not. You have T4(5) 3+ to protect you, but even fewer models than a normal SM force. This means every single model is precious, and you don't want to throw them away by piling into an assault where you can be tied up and swamped. A bike army is more about the fast repositioning, picking off bits of your opponent's force at a time. Does Khan give scout? I think so, and if so, Outflanking will potentially be great for this list. Think of it more like a Dark Eldar force than Marines, which have to hit hard and run away because they won't survive an attrition battle, and you won't go far wrong. This isn't to say never get into combat, just that you should be shooting to wear down your opponent to managable levels before you commit.
3. I'm not a huge fan of tanks in a biker list, though this may be personal taste. There are cheaper ways of getting (faster) heavy weapons on the table. Admittedly a Land Raider is never a bad thing! I agree with Tim that the Crusader might not be the best option - Redeemer can help thin out hordes which threaten to swamp you, and the Godhammer will zap tanks you otherwise have to get very close to kill with Melta. Again personal taste though (I own two crusaders and no Redeemer, so maybe a bit hypocritical there!). If you really want to include some tanks, dakka Predators and/or Vindicators might be better.
4. On that note, melta bombs might be handy. If your bikers are getting close enough to meltagun and miss, I'd like to be able to utilise Relentless to charge and have another go.
5. Having also played a 'Doublewing' list on occasions, I can confirm that bikes plus Terminators is loads of fun. Difficult to use, but they work together surprisingly well. They can tag team units with bazillions of bolter shots; teleporting esp onto beacons on scout bikes gets your termies into position to pick on units on the flanks, the bikes can then shoot/charge into the next unit along the line. This can roll up a gunline army's flanks very well.
Again, take a look at Deathwing/Ravenwing/Doublewing tacticas online and they will help. It might also be worth having a chat with LukeC as he ran an all-biker list for a while. I'm sure he can give you some ideas.
Cool man, thanks for the tips. I'll take a look at those tactica articles!
(18-06-2010 01:09 PM)TheOneYouKnow Wrote: [ -> ]If I included devastators they wouldn't need to be mechanised as most of the weapons they can field will reach the enemy on any standard board, so they would be the exception to the mech list and form a static fire base. Of course this would mean I have to rely on decent enough terrain in my deployment area for cover saves, but that usually isn't a problem. I don't usually field a multi-melta in my devastators so that would be the only weapon unlikely to reach from turn one (it's all about missile launchers or maybe a lascannon). They also can't take assault cannons, and heavy bolters would be pointless when missile launchers provide a much better anti-infantry role along with the option of anti-tank depending on what they fire in that turn.
Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer. I wasn't referring to their in-game use. I was referring to the fact that the rest of the army is mechanised or biked up and I felt it would be a bit better fluff-wise to give the devastators some kind of transport
I was of the understanding that Razorbacks could get TL HBs or TL Assault Cannon. you could therfore use that to partially mitigate the loss of the Raider's anti-infantry capability.