I'm debating on going to these or not since they aren't really 'tournaments' anymore but 'games days'. However if I just want a day of gaming - then I suppose it would be good. Random opponents is ridiculus in my opinion for a 'tournament'. Having it structured how it was means there was some sorting so that a crap player who had a luck win or two always got to play a good player to put him back down the ranks; and a good player with really bad luck could still propagate up the leaderboard by playing a worse player in the next round or two. In the new system an OK player could play 4-5 bad players and do brilliantly whilst a really good player could get lumbered agaist 4-5 other good players and do mediocre.
Some may argue that the player quality averages out over the (now) 5 games - but to be honest - '5' samples is not a good averaging number for stats. Even in the past tournies it was a bit pot luck - one year I did really well purely upon coming up against 3-4 armies (3 marine mech based) on the trot who never fought dark eldar before, and they paid for it. The very next year I came up against 3 players (lots of Orks and guard) who had D.E armies themselves, knew exactly what to do and I had to fight hard to get mid range in the listings. The new system makes it even more variable, not only have you got the pot luck of the army type + table terrain - you also have random pot luck on the player ability. The sad thing is - if I do go and do well - I won't count it as actually being one of the better players as I know there may be some excellent players doing worse than me who've had excellent players to play against - or equally there may be guys who aren't that good who have fluked it by the random pairings.
Plus you have an advantage if you use a non common army.... This smells to me of GW trying to get people to buy from all over their product lines.
What does everyone else think?
also - this link is quite funny to read (if you get easily offended I suggest you don't read it!)
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/06/...kshop.html
That is the nature of tournaments. Just look at the group stage of the world cup
Luck of the draw.
Plus, at the end of the day, you can be the best player in the world, if your dice are all going the wrong way it doesn't mean anything.
If I was to enter a tournament (can't afford the sky high prices) I would be going just to have fun, not caring how I did. But that's me.
While I get more and more tired of Jervis and his cronies spouting hyperbole about this and that and what its all about. The entertainment of seeing the hyper competative yanks blowing gaskets almost makes up for it
I like the fact that you compete within your army book, you can now collect the army you love and actually compete regardless. (Not so sure if the maths they use to do this/random opponents actually work of course)
This is boxing with weight divisions compared to say Ard Boyz which is no holds barred cage fighting.
+ pop up army rosters sound awsome! care and dedication should be rewarded
I think the aim is clear, to get more people going to GW GTs hell its not even called a Grand tournament any more its "throne of skulls" which means precisely dick!
By the sound of it their wont be heats etc just a 1 or 2 day session, how 1 OR 2 days works i dont know! but that means they could run a bunch of them instead
I am glad the points are the same I think half the challenge of 40k list building is getting it all in to 1500pts the Yanks will hate that its 1000pts short!
I find it slightly odd that they don't make tournament standard 1750, being that is the recommended 40k game size in the rulebook (certainly for playing standard missions anyway).
I cant find that in the rules... on P86 it says 1500 - 2000 pts will produce a balanced game that will last a few hours
1500 has been the standard since 3rd ed and most of their example lists (in my ork codex all) are 1500pts
its not a challenge squeezing your beloved miniatures into 1500 points lists, its IMPOSSIBLE! thats right, it cant be done, well obviously it can be done, but i cant do it, just cant, 2000 points any1? still a quick game if you show your throat as easily as my boys seem to.... im ranting, back and hoping to try out the venue soon
Have a wee chat with Chris, He has done a great job with his Eldar! I'm trying to get my Orks just right ATM, I had a great hoard list but they play SLOW!
I LOVE the challenge of getting a good list then playing games and tweaking it till its just right!
At 2000pts it easier to take everything you need, no fun,and 2500? that's how the Leaf Blower lists get made too many points and the Balance is gone! as Ive said B4 I think GW test at 1500pts, all signs point that way... the demo lists from codex's, the TOS Tourney size, when I played at GW bluewater it was the size game you HAD to play, WD used to play its games at that size till they thought they could get you to by more models as you try re-enacting their wars!
I agree with Paul; I think I've got my Guard list just right at 1500 now - anything over that and I'd just be able to spam and cheese. The challenge is trying to figure out how to build that 1500 all-comers list (which to this day, I've been unable to do with my Witch Hunters list, partly because they're now comparatively grossly overpriced).
I like 1750, although 1500 or 2000 are ok. I find that to be competitice at 1500 you have to - there's no choice - spam dirty units. I like making 250 points of fluffy goodness in my competitive armies.
I disagree Pete, my previous hoard list had little but boys in it and did well with only snikrot and a few burnaz in truck that where nearly dirty, my current build has only 2 units of 10 lootaz, are they dirty or just a necessary unit to take down light tanks (an area orks struggle Esp at 1500!)
I never use Nob bikers, the ork Dirty unit of choice for many, as I like the challenge of not using a "cookie cutter" list.
I think Spamming dirty units for me is not doable at 1500, Nob spam needs 1750 to get enough to cover all 5 choices of them AND kit them out so they don't fall down in a breeze! (ie make them all different so u need to inflict 11 wounds B4 u kill even 1!) then battle wagon Spam 6 costs 540 but that gets u nothing u need guns, Upgrades and stuff to put in em! as for nob biker spam well.... 10 will set u around 600pts kitted out properly! Ive recently been discussing a great rokkit spam list with Chris, 16 rokkitssome twin linked! but again its 1750pts!
BTW my new list is all Fluff, it is now the tiebreaker decider at TOS!
Well, let's define spam: Repeating the same unit that is a serious threat, as you can't kill it easily, or it kills very well. Your opponent will have trouble dealing with it.
So you say your last list comprised of all boys and a snikrot squad?
yea and it got thrashed by a lot of template weapons, besides less then 50% of ork tourney lists I have seen (And Ive seen alot!) are horde and over 75% of fluffy ones are hoard.
"What do you get out of it if you win anyway? Who the hell wants to be proclaimed the "King of the Fat Nerds" and given a foam latex hammer as their gavel of noob bashing."
From the link posted at the top.
Whoever wrote this is my hero ;-)
I personally like games days more than tournies as I am all about the story and the beer, but that is just me, and it does seem a little unfair that when once there were both offerings, they have taken it away now. The marking does seem stupid. Shame since the rest of the games have gotten better at tournament balance to get so close and then ruin it at the tournament rules stage is frustrating.
I played a doubles, and there were no "favourite players" and it was essentially knockout, seemed to make sense.